Just being curious.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. -- 1 Peter 3:21
This is what a Bible commentator said about the verse above: "The like figure of baptism in water also saves us. How does it save us? Is it the water that saves or the thing that it is a figure of? It was not the water that saved the 8 persons of v 20. It was the ark that saved them from drowning in the flood. So baptism in water does not save the soul, but faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, that which baptism is a figure of, does save the soul (Romans 6:3-5 . . . etc). A mere figure can have no power to save, but the reality of the figure can. Peter, lest some should trust in water baptism to save the soul, makes it very clear that baptism does not save one from the filth or moral depravity of the flesh. He shows it to be only the answer of a good conscience toward God, one that has been made clean by faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ (v 21). It is clear here that at baptism the conscience is already supposed to be good and clean and baptism merely answers to it. As the waters of the flood could not have saved these 8 persons, had they not made use of the ark, so the water of baptism does not save the soud of anyone, but tesifies figuratively to the salvation that comes by faith (Rom.1:16; 3:24-25; 10:9-10). "
ol boy this only refers to accusations which it said must be proved by two or more witnesses stop misinterpreting the scripture.
St Paul never condemned baptism of the dead in 1 cor 15:29 ,rather he was using it to prove that people would rise from the dead
is 1 cor 15:29 not scripture ?
Nobody has claimed that baptism guarantees salvation,all we are saying is that it is very necessary for the race to salvation.Even those who claim to be baptized by the holy spirit still commit sins.
Baptism is an outward sign that represents the manifestation of an inward reality. It represents the cleansing of our sins by the blood of Jesus when we accept him. It is symbolic as you said and only that. . . the fact that we do not do it does not change the fact that Jesus washed the sins away
To be born of the water literally means to come up out of the water, or to move from one transition to another, which is a fitting symbolism for one who is born into the spiritual realm.
That is exactly what Jesus meant. So why else would people go through the rudiment of baptism if that was not what Jesus meant? Why did Phillip have to baptize the Ethiopian Eunoch by water? Why did His disciples have to baptize those who accepted Jesus as Saviour and Lord? Baptism became a public declaration of one's faith.
The Greek word for baptism means to immerse. It symbolizes the death of a sinner who is then buried(immersed), and who finally resurrects to a new life in Christ. Hence it is a very important ceremony that was implemented by God Himself.
Keep silent on matters you have no knowledge about.
This is the question Paul asked:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I Cor.15:29-30.
From these verses of scripture we have 7 reasons why baptism for the dead is unscriptural and an erroneous practice:
[li]1. It is a law of Scripture that every doctrine must be proved by two or more scriptures (2 Cor.13:1; Matt.18:16; Deut.19:15-18), but this verse is the only one casually mentioning the subject.
2. The Corinthians were in many errors and heresies (1 Cor.11:19). Baptism for the dead was only one of them.
3. Water baptism does not save a living man who repents and meets the gospel conditions of salvation (Matt.3:11). Therefore, it could not save a dead man who did not meet conditions while he was alive (Lk.13:1-5; Rom.10:9-10; Eph.2:8-9; 1 John 1:9).
4. Salvation is a personal matter and cannot be obtained by proxy (Mk.16:16; Lk.13:1-5; John 3:16-20; Acts 3:19; Rom.1:16; 10:9-10; Eph.2:8-9; Rev.22:17).
5. There is no command or example of baptism for the dead in Scripture.
6. The simple truth is that Paul is here showing the inconsistency of false teachers at Corinth in denying the doctrine of resurrection and yet accepting the fallacy of the baptism for the dead. He does not sanction such a doctrine or practice just because he makes one passing reference to this error.
7. One might as well believe that there is no resurrection of the dead on the basis of false teachers saying there is none (1 Cor.15:12), as to believe in their practice of baptism for the dead (1 Cor.15:29).[/li]
Ttalks I see ur mind is already made up,when water is mentioned u say it is merely symbolic,when only baptism is mentioned u say it refers 2 d HS.did 1 john 5 :6 not mention dat JESUS came wit both water n blood n dat d spirit testifies 2 it? Why do'nt u answer d question of 1 cor 15:29,why were d dead baptised?
"All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." (Matt. 28:18-19).
Romans 6:3-4:for surely u know that when u were baptised into union wit christ,we were baptised into union with his death.By our baptism then we were buried wit him and shared his death in order that just as christ was raised 4rm death by d glorious power of his father,so also we might live a new life.
Chukwudi44 ive already addressed that, first of all no one is yet to show me where it was made a commandment to get baptised and secondly, the fact that you disobey your dad does not mean that you do not love him, you just disobeyed him ni. . . abi uve never disobeyed God of your dad b4?. . .
I believe many people have eaten the leaven of the RCC who believe that once you have been baptised in water you have been saved. They baptise babies and even the dead believing that they will make heaven. If one is baptised and dies as a sinner such a person will end up in hell. Baptism does not prevent anyone from going to hell if he has not repented and believed in the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said to be "born of water" in a figurative sense that means being born again by the Word of God.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abides for ever." -- 1 Peter 1:23
"That He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" -- Ephesians 5:26
"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" -- John 15:3
You can see especially from what Jesus said here was that his disciples were clean not going to be after the cross or at pentecost, they were clean through the word that Jesus spoke to them that they have believed, so it is the word and the Spirit of God that cleanses not water baptism which is a product of our faith in the atoning blood of Christ.
"Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." -- James 1:18
What's the use of continuous arguments? So far we all can agree on love as Christ's most important message to mankind, what would we gain by arguing like kids? Mostly about silly things too, "Can women wear pants? can men wear skirts?" Cultivate pure love for God and the people around you and watch every other thing fall in line.
Yes and no.
Baptism is a requirement according to Jesus. Even Jesus was baptized. In fact Jesus said it was the righteous thing to do when John had a problem baptizing Him. If persons have the opportunity to get baptized and refuse, then on that basis, they are not worthy to follow Jesus, or call Him Lord.
If a person is sick, or is in a position that doesn't enable, or facilitate baptism, then such persons can be entered into fellowship on the expression of their faith, These are exceptions to the rule. The thief on the cross is an example. Given the opportunity he'd have been baptized.
The Washing of Regeneration
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5).
The word "washing" (Greek, loutron) is used only twice in the New Testament. There is the "washing of regeneration," as in our text, and the washing in the Scriptures: "Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it; That He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" (Ephesians 5:25-26).
Since both the Word and Spirit of God are also said to be the effective agents in accomplishing the miracle of regeneration (see I Peter 1:23—"being born again . . . by the word of God," and John 3:7-8[i]—"Ye must be born again. . . . born of the Spirit"[/i]), it is clear that the washing of regeneration is synonymous, symbolically, with the "renewing of the Holy Ghost" and also with "the washing of water by the word."
The true washing of regeneration is not a ceremony or ritual, but an eternal reality, "shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3:6). It has nothing to do with "works of righteousness" (v.5), but only with "being justified by His grace" (v.7).
Now although regeneration by the Word through the Spirit, both symbolized by a cleansing bath in water, is entirely "according to His mercy," there must be thereafter a continual "washing of water by the word." Jesus said: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. . . . If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you" (John 15:3,7).
The Word will first reveal our sins and then cleanse our sins through its gracious exhortations and promises. "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word" (Psalm 119:9). HMM
And so we arrive at the point that: faith---->obedience
These acts of obedience arising from faith will include; being baptized, loving your neighbour, etc.
One is not justified by baptism or other "works" but by FAITH. And FAITH will be obvious in OBEDIENCE. As Jesus says make a TREE GOOD and its FRUIT will be GOOD.
I think the difference in positions arise from you holding that baptism is an act of faith (obedience) that is absolutely necessary, in contrast to those who would hold that baptism is just an act of faith like others such as loving the brethren (please correct me if I am wrong). There is a dynamic tension here which needs to be borne in mind when considering questions of this sort.
Php 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I appreciate the responses so far. I need someone to throw some light on which one of these is the authentic form of baptism: 1. The sprinkling on of water as practised mostly by the Catholic. 2. Immersion or dipping into water. A Catholic friend told me that the former is the real one, but Jesus was dipped into water as the bible teaches. Hmmm!
My reason for asking you if you think Paradise and Heaven meant the same place was simply base on your notion when you said "If baptism was the prerequiste for Heaven then how come the thief made his way to Paradise?".
And i was straight to tell you that your misinterpretation of paradise as heaven could be wrong, because Paradise and heaven both mean different things and thus are different places.
The book of Revelation made it clearer this way,
Rev 2:7 - To him who overcomes (is victorious), I will grant to eat [of the fruit] of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.[/b]AMP
At least you and I know that the tree of Life was in no other place except the garden of Eden. Heaven was not where the Thief went to, but rather Paradise (the origin of man's perfection).
Thus therefore, Water Baptism is a necessity for anyone who wants to make the kingdom of God,
John 3:5- [b]Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, [b]he cannot enter the kingdom of God[/b]AMP
I heard a teaching about how water baptism(by immersion) is the final separation from the world by a christian believer. It really got me thinking, can someone be separated in real essence from the world while still living upon the earth rife with the very sins that once beset him or that he would still fall to? If one after identifying with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ by water baptism and still falls to sin, what other hope does he have left?
Noetic and InesQor: While you are fighting each other, by Allah's Will, I am please to see your confusions. I am here presenting to you Paul's cancellation of Baptism by a disbeliever lik me marrying a "Chrstian". Paul also killed, the belief in Jesus, yet as a disbeliever who at least dies while maried to Christian is "Purified and Sanctified" and oh, no Hell but easy stroll to Christian Heaven. So men, I am good to go; With the global financial situation, we muslims will marry christian spouses and call it a night, while our children are muslims, too. Jesus and Paul will have to argue this one out between themselves;
1 Corinthians 7:12-14 (King James Version)
12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
There are two things here.
1. We get saved by faith. Faith is however not an abstract thing. The will of God is to substantiate our faith from belief to reality. . . .this process entails a walk with God. This walk starts at the point of salvation.
2. The ticket for that walk is BAPTISM. baptism is a physical expression of the faith we have in the death and resurrection of JC. its NOT baptism in itself but the OBEDIENCE involved.
In the same vain, I could ask u, that since muslims claim to believe in JC. . , are they also saved?
noetic, nobody is trying to downplay the act of faith which is the water baptism. The point here is that it is not a part of what gets one saved. The conclusion is water baptism comes after being saved and not in the process of getting saved(refering to the saved that Christ referred to in John 3:16,not the continuous process till Christ's return). It is an act performed after being saved.Entry into salvation/the body of Christ/christianity requires only belief in Christ and nothing else. Any other thing is simply an act of faith.