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Who Is Bigger, Madrid Or Man U?

I am not a fan of either club, am Chelsea and i love the Blues. I am just wondering how you define a big club.

When you ask Ronaldo why he is moving to Madrid, he will tell you he is joining a big club.

My argument; in what way(s) is Real bigger than Man U? Real has been dull in Europe for years, i can't remember the last time they made it to Quarter Finals of the Champion league. How are they bigger than Man U. that only lost a match (against Barca - Rome Final) in two champion league seasons and has been defending the Premier league for three consecutive seasons (i.e. they are equally good at home), not to mention the fact that they are the current holder of the FIFA World Football Club's Trophy.

Do you measure a big club by the number of Trophy they have won or their fat account (and ofcourse United are equally rich)?

Please i need constructive argument here, cause i still cant fashion how Madrid is bigger than the Red Devil.

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75 answers

An old billy-goat musta urinated on your head as a tot.

Only a complete Arrow like you would believe Podolski was the best player at the last world cup.

No wonder his peers have left him. . . . .He should hug his award in 2006 as consolation.

2 different issues you piece of turd.

In a competition that had Ronaldo, Podolski, Messi. . . . . . .Podolski was given an award via politics.

A year later, Ronaldo and Messi lined up in the FIFA Best Player Of The Year Award and Podolski was nowhere to be found.

2 years later, Ronaldo won the BIG prize with Messi coming 2nd and still. . . . . .Podolski was nowhere near the podium.

What does that say about the 2006 award he was given dubiously. . . . . .U are a fool.

I asked if Klose has won a golden boot before. . . . . .

Now, there are 2 different types of Golden boots. . .The one won in the big league, and the ones won in inferior league like Bundesliga, Russia, etc

How many people still remember Cisse won a golden boot in France? Those are inferior leagues(who cares??)

So until Klose wins a golden boot in England, Spain or Italy. . . . . .He is a nobody!!!

Ur command of English language is atrocious.

The question u asked was if United had bought any player who went on to win a golden boot in any of the top leagues.

I provided you an answer with Forlan and Ruud and now you retracted your statement and tried another line.

U are the daft guy. . . . .Your question should be. . . ."Have United bought a striker who's already won a golden boot in the top league?"

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend simple English Language?

Olodo Rabata.

Whether u like him or not. . . . . .In his 3 years in England, he has won 2 league titles from the BIG LEAGUE and one UCL title.

Miroslav Klose/Podolski and Ballack(the best German player) can never EVER win those in their Nazi-assed career.

Of course it would be an insult to idiots to call me an cos idiots know a slowpoke like you should not even dare.

In the kingdom of ninnys, u should be made a LIFE president.

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You must be the most silly of analysts. How many percentage of votes do the English fans and press hold to vote off Ronaldo and vote in Podolski.

Give all explanation Rooney had Herpes, Robinho had gonnorhhea, Messi was benched, Ronaldo winked or whatever The bottom line is Podolski won Best young player at the world cup.

What happens in their latter career does not count. Lentini was bought as a star whether he lived it up or not is not the point.

Shevchenko flopped at Chelsea does that mean he was not a star?

Common sense evade you.

Who can believe the same person typed the two statements within 24 hours. Instead of him to admit his goof he went on rambling like a castrated donkey

Simple question, Did Luca Toni break a 50 year Serie A record? if he did then you must be a consummate .

Did Man Utd but Forlan and Nistelrooy from La Liga? Why are you this daft. I thought you understood English language

Lemme complete it Tevez outclassed just the way Fletcher outclassed gerrard, Xavi and Lampard because Flethcher won the CL.

It would be an insult to idiots to call you an

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Ronaldo won the awards last year cos he scored meaningful goals that helped his team win major titles.

The trophies you win don't matter if you don't put in the shift. . . . .stop talking like an .

How many Man Utd fans made the UEFA Champions League All-Star XI.

If it's about trophies alone, Wes Brown + Carrick + Tevez woulda made the list.

Your depth of IDIOCY is stupendous.

I used PFA award as that is the most basic award a twerp like you can relate with. . . . .

Luiz Ronaldo of Brazil won the golden ball in 1998 world cup but it was France that won the tournament.

Scillaci of Italy(whose team came 3rd) won the best player in 1990 but it was Germany that won the world cup. . .So what the Bleep has trophy gotta do with it?

If you are as smart as the nail on ma pinky, you would at least know how to use the quote button, u ignorant saphead!!!

Which silly main award is this talking about??

When George Weah won European Footballer of The Year, World Player Of The Year and African Player Of The Year(all in 1995), did he win the World Cup, Cup Of Nations or Euros??

U have the brain capacity of a culex mosquito.

What is a BIG club doing in the Championship?

Look at this baboon. . . . . .U have shown to all n sundry you need artificial intelligence.

That is your silly opinion and u won't debate with me cos you are mentally shallow.

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Quote from sauron

Where did i say it's only the goals that matters?? U came here to say it's ONLY the TROPHIES that matter.

I countered you that it is not ONLY the trophies but other things apply as well.

Why is it hard for you to comprehend simple English?

I will still stick to what i said, IT'S THE TROPHIES YOU WIN THAT MATTERS WHEN IT COMES TO RATING, after trophies come performance and any other things, C. Ronaldo won what he won last year based on the trophies his club accumulated and not by his goals, Henry did more than that with arsenal and never won a trophy or award.

Quote from sauron

So why did Gerrard win the PFA award if it's ALL about the Trophies?

Zidane won player of the tournament in 2006 world cup. . . . . .Did he win the cup?

Why are you so daft?

We are talking about awards, you are bringing in PFA, lol, you are joking bro, even when Giggs was the best midfielder in EPL, he was never given thay yeye award. shiooo

Now you are sounding like the sauron i know, you can't hide your silly character, its part of you bro, you can't be saved from it again,

When Zidane was given the MVP, did that qualify him for the Main Award that Cananvaro won? maybe if France had the worldcup, he would have been given the FIFA player of the year, but it was given to Canavaro because he was outstanding in the italian team that won the worldcup.

And brilliant pundits on this thread have all said "club achievement" is not the ONLY FACTOR that makes a club BIG.

If that is the case then Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa are BIGGER than Arsenal and Chelsea!!!

IF FOREST WAS STILL IN THE TOP PLIGHT, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN RATED BIGGER THAN THESE CLUBS YOU MENTIONED, EVEN WITH THEM BEING IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP, THEY STILL RANK HIGHER THAN THESE CLUBS YOU MENTIONED WHEN IT COMES TO TROPHIES WON AND ACHIEVEMENTS OKAY?

No more debating with you,

Back to the post on ground,

no matter what you think or want others to think, REAL MADRID IS STILL MILES BETTER THAN MAN UNITED.

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We are talking about the ratings of the various players before they joined either Man Utd or bayern

Wayne Rooney was best young talent at the Euro cup, Lucas Podolski was best young talent at the world cup beating players from Brazil Argentina, Asia and Africa COMPARE!!!

You cant just miss any opportunity to goof GUFFANTI

Miro Klose was highest goal scorer in the Bundesliga in 2006 and German footballer of the year 2006

Before joining Bayern He was the hghest goal scorer at the World Cup and Silver boot at the 2002 World cup. Tell me any of Man Utd strikers who ever hAD THIS PEDIGREE

This is beside the point. He broke the Serie A goal scoring record of 50 years.

Has Man Utd ever bought a striker who was the highest goal scorer from the big leagues in Europe?

When the BIG players are in Europe the local champion was back home doing home based youngings. Since he came to Europe has he been ever mentioned in the same line with fellow south Americans like Messi, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Aguero? he should go back to South America like Riquelme and claim his crown. THE VILLAGE CHAMP.

I am sure SWP was one of the most expensive players too and Darren bent

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This dude has no iota of common sense in his cranium.

The biggest set of Man Utd fans are in China and Indonesia. . . . . . .How many Indonesians and Chinese players have played for Man Utd.

What is the business of em South American fans with who plays where? Are u a dolt?

Park Ji Sung was strictly for sporting reasons. . . .He was nobody before United copped him at PSV but he is now the Asian footballer of the year.

Anybody who thinks Villareal and Zaragoza are bigger than Man Utd in South America should never be taken serious.

I will go as far as saying Arsenal FC are bigger than Real Madrid in South America. I am done with this ish cos it's obvious u need to cop some artificial intelligence.

Podolski(rubbish). . . . . .Bought as best young player at the world cup but rubbish in club games.

Klose(pile of self-service). . . . . .Has he ever won the UCL golden boot or Bundesliga's golden boot?

Luca Toni(another plank). . . . .He is the reason Italy are not doing well.

Franck Ribery. . . . . .An overrated piece of turd. He should look at Ronaldo and Messi and understand wingers can score 40 goals a season.

Roy Makaay. . . . Good player but his records pale in comparison to Man Utd's Van Nistelrooy.

Compare your relics to. . . . .

Wayne Rooney(The best young talent in 2004 Euros when United copped him).

Carlos Tevez(South America's most celebrated player)

Van Nistelrooy(Need i say more??)

Neumanja Vidic(The most expensive defender in Russian League).

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hahaha. . . the irony

Please if you don't mind. . generate an argument, using those two statements, that shows that Manchester United is bigger than Real Madrid in South America.--------------->

My point exactly . .

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How many south American players have ever played at Manutd? How many south American super stars have ever played at Manchester United? Whatever number u come up with, multiply that by 100. Thats how deep Real Madrid run in south America. Real Madrid and Barcelona, La Liga in general, have set up shop there for about a century. you are here shouting Manchester United, Nike balls in La liga and EPL. . .u funny gan. Villarreal, Real Zaragoza, etc are bigger than Manchester United in South America. Look at La Liga rosters and compare to any league in the world for South American talent. U think Ji Sung Park @ Man Utd was strictly for sporting reasons? Think, man!

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Jurgen Klinsman went to Bayern in 1995 the same year he was second in ballon D'or and third in FIFA player of the year.

The popularity of a club amongst non soccer playing nation is analogous to a black rapper from America who is unknown in Brooklyn, Queens, Compton and Bronx but hailed and has a large fan base in Warsaw, Vladivostoc, Pyongyang and Leningrad

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Podolski- Bought as best young player at the world cup

Klose- Highest goal scorer at world cup

Lucatoni- Highest goal scorer in the serie A broke a 50 year scoring record

Franck Ribery - Brightest French talent around

Lucio-  Veteran respected brazilian defender

Roy Makaay- Scored 9 goals in the champions league

Compare Wayne Rooney's pedigree to these guys. With facts too

Can you state the pedigree of Man Utd purchases that beat these

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What amazes me everytime u spew hokum is your attempt to sound intelligent.

I have provided enough information on this issue you would never see in your google. . . . .

Nike balls are used in the leagues of Spain, Italy & England. . . . . .There are 330 million United fans worldwide to Madrid's 225 million.

With over 100 million difference in the number of fans, there's no way United will not thump Madrid in South America

U deserve all the opprobrium i have showered on you on this thread cos i can assure you that a learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant fool.

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haha. . . The thing with reading some of the posts that you make is that one can get dumber just for having laid eyes on them. You consistently defy not just logic, but idiocy. You then go ahead and over compensate for your total lack of intellectual curiosity with ur bellicose statements, that u have somehow managed to equate with coherence. U are legend!!

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Adidas is bigger in football, everywhere. That is fact. do with it as u may.

I posted the article to illustrate the nature of both organizations. Adidas IS football. Nike just stick their logo on stuff and sell it.

This is the nonsense I was responding to.

Man Utd can NEVER be more popular than Real Madrid in South America. U see the world only thru the lens of Manutd. . thats why u're usually wrong on most issues, because u pick the side of the argument that exalts Man Utd and all that it is affiliated with . .regardless of how silly the position is.

U went to university, I'm sure they taught you how to not let ur biases affect ur judgement. U just let ur pupsie throway money on top school fees no learn anythin. u deserve make dem flog u 12 lashes

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U make more noise than i do when u know nada.

How can u be so daft to be quoting an article that is 3 years old?

Goof? U think i am a soccer illiterate like you?

Club Atlético San Lorenzo de Almagro

I don't have a problem with you googling here and there but at least, let those articles be credible and up to date.

U went as far as telling us Adidas are the top dogs and they own Reebok and reh reh reh. . . . .

The theme of the debate is who has a bigger influence in South America NOT who was established before the 2nd World War or who sponsored who to the last world cup!!!

I will EAT cyanide the day you beat me in any argument.

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haha. . u are just a noise maker.

Everybody signs stars, u clown. Is Messi a frog?

U still haven't told me what Club Atletico u are talking about. Which one of the 100 or so they have in Argentina. Goof!

And why would i quote an article, and then post the article if i gave a flyin fukc that i googled it. U think everyone is insecure like ur Dam Bottom? I google poo whenever I need to, because it is convenient. But unlike you i look at info critically, and come to more credible conclusions. Technology is supposed to make our lives easier, buffoon.

No wonder u just come here and spew garbage all the time. . . u never do ur homework.

Nonsense!

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U are a consummate slowpoke for citing an article made 3 years ago when Rooney broke his metatarsal.

Do u really think u are arguing with a slowpoke like you in here?

How can u bleeping justify your claims by citing obsolete articles?

U are a bleeping dork!!!

We are talking about their influence in South America and you are spewing fuckery as usual.

U know nothing as a child so shut the Bleep up and learn.  . . . .What u spewed here is what u googled 2 hours ago.

In South America, it is all about getting star players.

This argument veered off to how some marketing brands tend to influence the fans of other continents(especially South America).

What has the first time Nike had more teams than Adidas in the world cup gotta do with anything?

As we speak today, neither Nike nor Adidas know which of their teams are going to South Africa for the world cup.

That has nothing to do with their global influence. . . . . .It was Nike that first designed a special boot for Ronaldo in France 98(not Adidas).

That information is immaterial here. . . . . . .Whether Adidas own Reebok or Globacom has nothing to do with their influence in Latin America.

U have an annoying way of lumping senseless points in an argument.

We started off with the Sports company who have the bigger influence in Latin America and i am telling you it's NIKE.

I know a lot about the Brazilian league and i know Nike sponsor 2 clubs as well as Adidas.

However, Nike sponsor the biggest names in South America and they have always had big names on their commercial boards since Noah's Ark.

Next time, try not to quote articles written 3 years ago to justify your claims.

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U are not intelligent.

Nike sponsor 2 club teams in Argentina(Boca Juniors, Atlas) and 2 in Brazil(Corinthians, Flamengo).

Adidas sponsor 2 club teams in Argentina(River Plate, Club Athletico) and 2 in Brazil(Fluminense, Palmeiras).

If we judge the quality of the clubs the 2 sports giants sponsor, NIKE win by light years.

Now what make Nike gigantic in South America? It is the individual deals they have with top players in South America.

Where should i start? Luiz Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Robinho, Fabiano, Aguero, Mascherano, Tevez, etc.

U have a way of dipping your nose in what you are clueless about.

Nike are the giants of South America and the way they force Man Utd star players on the populace is what makes United popular down there.

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Nike only sponsors 2 teams in Argentina. Adidas, Puma, Diadora are all bigger in South America than Nike. South America is a huge market and Nike don't have a strong hold on poo.

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U must be smoking woolies.

Nike have a strong hold in South America as they sponsor the biggest South American clubs like Boca Juniors and Corinthians.

They also have individual contracts with certain players. . . . . . . .

Are u aware Cristiano Ronaldo would still be wearing his nike boots on Real Madrid's adidas shirts?

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@ Sauron. .Adidas owns south America, plus, they are the biggest name in football apparel, not Nike. Nike run sports apparel overall, but adidas owns football. They research/design/make everything, from the official balls, to the hi-tec boots. . They are the pioneers. Nike is a marketing company. . .they technically don't make anything, they just give out contracts to sweat shops all over the place.

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Thank you HONERIC. Thats the one argument that makes sense.

All these clubs were in existence in the 50's so why did they not win.

If local leagues are not of equal strenght then come to the CL to prove yourself Clubs like Celtic have not done that.

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Bayern attracted Lucatoni, Miro Klose, Franck Ribery, Roy Makaay, Lucio

The age a player joins does not matter. Figo and Zidane joined Madrid about 30 years old and to say Juergen Klinsman was not a star player is completely ridiculous He was placed 2nd in the Ballon D'or of 1995 and you mean he is not a star player i made him to be?

As to your argument about domestic leagues yes they are not of equal strenght thats why I would use the CL as the sole basis for rating.

If you go to South America Man Utd would not feature among the clubs being discussed there.

Man Utd being popular among Chinese and in places where football is not developed is B-S to me.

The main continents that are great in football Europe and South America where does Man Utd rate?

Its like measuring the popularity of footballers among teenage girls as a basis to judge the better footballer.

Left to teenage girls Beckham is greater than Maradona, Pele Zidane and Ronaldo joined together.

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Wether u played half club o or u played 10 strong clubs in your league is not the issue here, Wether u won all ur trophies now oo or u won it 1900, that na your story, every era comes with its own challenges. When madrid dominated europe and the world, they played against clubs of their own set, it wasn't like madrid fell from the sky or like madrid had all the zidanes, rauls, ruuds teleported into the 50's, they obviously used the players that were present then to win all these trophies, so I find it disturbing when people say poo about their trophies not counting. All I care to say is that the end justifies the means, as long as u have the trophy in your shelve, you remain the winner, so my rating is this

Madrid

Ac milan

Liverpool

Bayern munich

Ajax

Barcelona

Man utd.

They all compete in europe, so whatever that brings them to compete with eachother should be the yardstick of rating which is the champions league.

If you want to add league titles and cups, then barcelona comes before liverpoolol and Ajax

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This is a coward's comment. . . . . .

The quality of opposition gunning for the EPL title is better than the one in Spain.

Even a numbskull knows that.

What a ridiculous excuse.

The same controls on FIFA 04 still apply to FIFA 09.

Unless u have never played FIFA series before now, this excuse holds no water.

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The thing with debating u, sauron . .is that u care little for making sense. It's cool when i'm bored and feel like shootin the poo online . .but u just talk such crap sometimes, that it makes me wonder what type of floor u were dropped on as a child.

Where the hell did u say the word Europe in that post? U talk poo, u get called on it and presented with facts that illustrate ur cluelessness, but u just turn around and spew more nonsense. I tire O. When will u ever say "oh . .I was mistaken. . thanks for the correction". That makes u more of a man.

Remember when I messed up on how long Vela has been an Arsenal player and I think A-40 pointed it out to me, I learned what I didn't know and am better for it. U go just dey do strong head. Muruus!!

U know very little about other clubs and ur comments show it. Real Madrid is a legendary team. Their fame is unrivaled. They have dominated Europe for so long, playing fantasy type football with the biggest names in the game. That is what their fame is based on. . Not just marketing.

Make i come give u beatin for fifa . . are u online?

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Year-----------1st place----------Runners up---------------------3rd plce

1993-94 FC Barcelona-----Deportivo de La Coruña--------Real Zaragoza

1994-95 Real Madrid Deportivo de La Coruña-----------Real Betis

1995-96 Atlético Madrid----Valencia CF--------------------FC Barcelona

1996-97 Real Madrid--------FC Barcelona-------------Deportivo de La Coruña

1997-98 FC Barcelona----Athletic Bilbao ----------------Real Sociedad

1998-99 FC Barcelona-------Real Madrid ----------------Real Mallorca

1999-00 Deportivo LC------FC Barcelona---------------Valencia CF

2000-01 Real Madrid-----Deportivo LC----------------Real Mallorca

2001-02 Valencia CF----Deportivo LC------------------Real Madrid

2002-03 Real Madrid-----Real Sociedad------------Deportivo LC

2003-04 Valencia CF-----FC Barcelona---------Deportivo de La Coruña

2004-05 FC Barcelona----Real Madrid----------------Villarreal CF

2005-06 FC Barcelona---Real Madrid---------------Valencia CF

2006-07 Real Madrid----FC Barcelona--------------Sevilla FC

2007-08 Real Madrid---Villarreal CF---------------FC Barcelona

2008-09 FC Barcelona---Real Madrid---------------Sevilla FC

In the last 16 seasons, only 6 times have Barca and Madrid held the 1st 2 spots. Sauron, u need to stop regurgitating what u hear from drunken Brits in ghetto pubs.

As far as Global brand name recognition, u need to stop repeating what u read on ur club website and what EPL commentators tell u. Man U is up there but they don't dwarf the other big clubs. Apart from Asia where u guys had a head start as per aggressive marketing, Liverpool sef is as big a brand as Man U.

Real Madrid is the most recognized brand in football.

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How can he disagree when the same Papin only copped ONLY 27 league appearances in 2 SEASONS with Bayern Munich??

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1. Papin was acquired in 1994 at the age of 31yrs, from mIlan for GBP 2.1M. Milan had bought him from Marseille for GBP 6-10M and he had failed to live up to expectation failing to break into the first team. he spent the star years at Marseille and was not the major star you portray him to be when he joined Bayern.

2. Similarly, Klinsmann joined Bayern in 1995 at the age of 31 from tottenham. He was on a downturn in his career and was not the star player you make him out to be.

That leaves Ballack on your list as the palyer that was signed by bayern as a star when he was desired by many.

But I am almost sure you will disagree with my above analysis and thus it is a futile exercise.

As to domestic success which is simply the league IMO (like UCL is european success), one should consider the strength of the opposition, and I would put FA cups along with other titles like UEFA cup, intercontinental cup, super cup, and any other trophies under honors.

ManU have won 18 league titles (6 in the last 10 yrs, 10 in the last 15, and 11/20), all has the English league has risen to prominence based on their performance in Europe (as refelected in the UEFA league coeeficient).

Bayern has won 21 league titles (5/10, 8/15, 10/20), but the german league has been declining in strength of recent.

Barca has won 18 league titles (3/10,  6/15, 9/20) while the spanish league has remained in the top three for the better part of the decade

For me ManU is currently the more successful of the clubs, but then again, you would likely disagree.

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It's a combination of many factors. . . . .United have had to challenge 3 BIG clubs in England season after season while Bayern have no real challenger in the Bundesliga and Barcelona's only rival in La Liga is Real Madrid.

It is very difficult to win the EPL than the La Liga or the Bundesliga(this is why UEFA don't even rate Bundesliga).

If you doubt this, ask Rafa Benitez and Arsene Wenger!!!

Man Utd attracted Fabien Barthez, Peter Schmeichel, Wayne Rooney, Jaap Stam and Ruud Van Nistelrooy.

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Tell us about the success on the field which is the real basis for assessing football clubs and how Man Utd beats Barcelona and Bayern in this.

Bayern attracted Jean Pierre Papin, Klinsman and Ballack. Aside Veron which big player.

Biina Using the same metric you brought forth Man Utd still does nt stand at 3rd unless there is an X factor you did not mention

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I provided my list, you are free to use your own metric and come up with your own rankings.

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Man Utd whups Barcelona and Bayern Munich as far as fanbase, global brand, success off/on pitch and fuckever indices u might take into consideration.

Comparing the league success of Bayern to Man Utd is a tad folly. Nobody rates the German league.

It's like saying Celtic is bigger than Arsenal/Chelsea because they have won 42 league titles(who cares??)

How many players have Bayern Munich attracted? NIL!!!!

U talk about the players in Barcelona. . . . . .I will be bold to say it is because South Americans feel more at home in Spain than anywhere else.

It has nothing to do with the magnitude of Barcelona or Real Madrid.

South Americans will rather play in Osasuna or Valencia than Man Utd because of their tradition and most especially the language.

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@Debo,

Man Utd did not ATTRACT Cr7 as a big player he was developed there.

I considered success at both domestic and european levels

Bayern Munich Local league 21 DFB Pokal(FA cup) 14 CL -4

Barcelona Local league 19 Cope dey rey 25 CL 3

manchester Local league 18 FA cup 11 CL 3

history and pedigree

Bayern apart from winning 4 CL have lost in 3 finals

star players

Bayern: Franz Beckenbauer, Paul Breitner, Uli Hoeness, Sepp Maier (GK) Gerd Müller (FW), Matthaus, Oliver Kahn, jean pierre papin.

Barcelona: Romario, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Lionel Messi, Hristo Stoichkov, Gheorge Hagi, Ronald Koeman

Manchester: Bobby charlton, george best, Dennis Law, Cristiano Ronaldo, David Beckham, Eric Cantona

Man Utd wins

player attraction etc.

Barcelona leads this hands down between Bayern and man Utd I dont know think any of them has attracted a BIG player The closest were Ballack in 2002 and Veron 2001.

I am interested in how your criteria makes Man Utd 3rd in Europe

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You posted this as your metrics and the stats I brought forth does not agree with your conclusion. If you did you ratings based on the criteria you listed there is no way in Hell Man Utd would be third above Bayern or Barcelona

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I told you the factors I considered and what my outcome was. You obviously feel differently and have posted your own list. I don't see the point in wasting time on the issue as I doubt we would come to an agreeable list.

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Biina,

I am waiting for your reply about the metrics you brought up and quantify it in a way that would support your assertion that Man Utd is 3rd in Europe

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My Rankings

Fc Barcelona

The rest of Europe

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Bayern Munich Local league 21 DFB Pokal(FA cup) 14 CL -4

Barcelona Local league 19 Cope dey rey 25 CL 3

manchester Local league 18 FA cup 11 CL 3

So You can rate them based on this

honors,

I dont know how you want to define honours

I dont know the quantitative measure of this Maybe you can help with stats,

Bayern and barcelona obviously floors Man Utd in this regards,

Bayern apart from winning 4 CL have lost in 3 finals Barcelona have lost

value, revenue, - Forbes Man Utd wins this category

star players- The caliber of players who have dorn Bayern and Barcelona colours can never be compared to Man Utd

Bayern Franz Beckenbauer, Paul Breitner, Uli Hoeness, Sepp Maier (GK) Gerd Müller (FW), Matthaus, Oliver Kahn, jean pierre papin.

Barcelona. Romario, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Lionel Messi, Hristo Stoichkov, Gheorge Hagi, Ronald Koeman

manchester: Bobby charlton, george best, Dennis Law, Cristiano Ronaldo, David Beckham, Eric Cantona

Barcelona leads this hands down between Bayern and man Utd I dont know think any of them has attracted a BIG player The closest were Ballack in 2002 and Veron.

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My ranking was

1. Madrid

2. Milan

3. ManU

4. Bayern

5. Barelona

6. Liverpool

7. Ajax

The question was who was the biggest club and not simply who was the most successful in europe.

I considered success at both domestic and european levels, honors, popularity, history and pedigree, value, revenue, star players, player attraction etc.

Outside of european success, I think ManU is tied or has a leg up on any opf the other clubs you mentioned.

Of course you are free to come up with your own metrics.

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So do your weighing statistically and come up with a ranking which would retain madrid as first, and Man Utd as second as you posited earlier. ahead of Milan, Bayern, Barcelona and co

Why do you rate them ahead of Barcelona

I dont understand your post especially the bolded part, then you might want to state the criteria you are using for this rating.

I hope you wont include finest Jersey, Fan base, Biggest stadium, popularity, youngest players

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If you decide to disregard old titles, where do you draw the line?

Even if you count all the titles, that would be the only area in which liverpool is superior to manU and it is not enough to make them a bigger club than ManU

But then as I have already said, we cannot use only UCL wins to evaluate the biggest club.

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Its one of two things, We disregard those titles won in ancient times or we count it.

We cant count those titles when it comes to Madrid and not count them when it comes to Bayern or Ajax.

All of Ajax, Bayern, Liverpool have won the CL version so they are all above Man Utd.

I am still waiting for why you feel Bayern and Barcelona should be behind Man Utd in your ratings. Doesnt make any sense to me.

Arsenal does not have a winning mentality. Its either ingrained in the coach or in the players. Coaches like Mourinho or players like Gerrard want to win always.

But Arsenal is a club that would celebrate second place or even fourth place. That shows the ambition of the club as a whole. Given the way they celebrate Emirates and Amsterdam cups and are content with 4th place in the league

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As much as I dont like manU, I respect SAFs winning mentality. The likes of Capello, Mourinho and co also have same.

They treat being second almost like a failure and I feel you need that mental attitude to become a champion.

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I won't be wasting my money.

It's not that Arsenal lack talents in their squad that they don't win. . . . .It is because the squad is so small and they burn out when they are expected to stand up and be counted in the latter stage of the season.

By February, they are left with 10 decent players while their rivals can still boast of 18-20 decent players to make the final push.

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Passing by Don't need to argue every one know MADRID remains the best,

Enlgish League is no where to be recognized in the first 3 league of the world, due to the lack of discipline and many more, dont need any bleeping argue sha.

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@dayokanu

If you feel Nottingham forest, a club which just got promoted from the 3rd level English league, is in the same bracket with clubs like Juventus and Inter, then we are on different wavelengths. I doubt I would mention Nottingham forest when considering the top 30 biggest clubs, same as I am unlikely to list Uruguay when naming 10 great soccer nations.

@bollingjoe

The European cup and the game of soccer itself has evolved over the years. It is obviously more difficult to win in the modern day than it was back then. For instance only single entries were allowed from each league and thus the competition was softer.

Madrid won the first five editions of the cup. If they had failed to win any more till now, I would deem the likes of Bayern as being more successful than them. For example, before the 98 win, I would deem AC milan as being more successful than Madrid, having won 5 titles with 3 in the last 10yrs, as opposed to Madrid's 6, with the last one being 30yrs old in 1966.

I feel the older the title is, the lesser its comparative value should be.

All that aside, I dont think UCL success should be the sole criterion for determining the biggest club. For instance, in determining the FIFA clubs of the 20th century, (not surprising) there was no significant mention of Nottingham forest.

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Unfortunately for u, i don't think like everyone else. . . . . . . .

U expect me to think like some goats who feel Liverpool are a bigger club than Man Utd?

The same Liverpool who are yet to win their domestic league in TWENTY YEARS? I will pass.

Again, using the UCL as the only yardstick to determine the biggest club is a tad folly.

These days, clubs set different priorities in a season. . . .Milan won UCL in 2007 because they gave up on chasing the serie A title.

In England, Ferguson would be sacked for doing the same thing. Winning the Premiership is a bigger prize to United in England.

To be frank, Barcelona's victory last month and United's victory in Moscow are better achievements than Liverpool in 05 and Milan in 2007.

Barca and United won their domestic league on their way to winning the Champions League.

Liverpool finished 37 points below the league leaders in 2005!!! The same 37 points woulda been enough for all the teams that relegated to stay in the Premiership in the same season. So how excellent were Liverpool in the bigger picture?

Milan also finished 36 points below Inter Milan when they won the UCL. . . . .

I am willing to bet Arsenal will win the UCL if they make it their top priority regardless of where they finish on the league table.

All they have to do is play the Wilsheres, Jay Simpsons and Kieran Gibbs in the league and roll out the big guns for the UCL ties.

Liverpool and Milan did that to boost the number of UCL titles they have won.

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@ biiina if u say dat madrid 's five consecutive cups is overrated why didn't man utd win them or wuz man utd not formed then lol

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Yes the CL is the leveller. Domestic competitions dont mean much. Cos ur league might be easier than mine to win.

Celtic has won more domestic competitions.

Other yardsticks dont make sense to me like richest club, finest Jersey, Biggest stadium or largest fan base .

A football club is judged by trophies just like students are judged by results and not handwriting, height, pocket size, shoe sizes or hairstyles.

Yeah Nottingham Forest is the 12 most successful team in Europe cos they reigned and took advantage of their reign. If you consider Madrids 6 trophies in the 50's I dont see any reason why Forests trophies in the 70's almost 20 years shouldnt count

If you are on top today and you cant win laurels then of what use is it . Who remembers Mochengladbach for anything?

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