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Are There Jobs In Uk ?

Honestly I am honestly really pissed off. Visiting UK  and found two friends - grown up men in their 40s,  who have not had a job for almost two years and just living on their wives who are nurses. I am sure there are hundreds of similar instances like that all over. The Naija churches in London are filled with peeps wearing mournful looks and you can see that their lives are going nowhere because most don't have a job anymore but they are too proud to let anybody know that. Why can't people just get wise that they are living in fool's paradise And surprisingly there are thousands of youths in Naija warming up and spending their lives applying for visa under any kind of guise to go an earn pound sterling. London job market is more bombed than Lagos . At least at home you get sympathy and well perhaps nothing else but here in London there is "no paddy for jungle"

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183 answers

^^

Seconded.

Most of the posts were utter nonsense.

When I saw the topic 'Are there jobs in the Uk?' I assumed that the topic was for people seeking jobs in the UK, possibly a treatise on the UK job market. Which could be a topic on, say, an Indian or Filipino forum.

Instead, Nigerians went on to pontificate about all sorts, and insult the heck out of each other. Which makes me wonder? Who said Nigerians are too big to find jobs in the UK, or that Nigerians can't find jobs in the UK? If you're qualified, you should be able to find jobs anywhere. In fact, there is a process for getting authorization to work in the UK or most other countries, if you have the required skills and qualifications.

In fact, for a country with a huge population of able-bodied and intelligent citizens, it's a crime that we are more or less absent in the global jobs market. A market where aircraft technicians from the Phillipines are hired to work in Angola, or drilling technologists from India are hired to work in Aberdeen. Rather, the OP says he's a poultry farmer in Nigeria, and is thus better off than anybody working in the UK. Utter nonsense.

What a pity. With this kind of attitude, the nation can never develop.

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It amazes me how people come out to attack posters on NL even when they claim they 've a better understanding of the topic or how it should be put across.

Only a few few people gave proper response to the topic.

We have a winner in DEBOSKY response.

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Pafun you've said FOUR times now that you're out of this thread. . You couldn't even stick to your words, that shows the kind of person you are. Coupled with that are insults you've used like F*** you e.t.c, what are you ? 12. You couldn't even hold down one single argument logially,

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Exactly, just like people who believe they can go to school all on scholarship, I look I laugh because if u know how many tens of millions US citizens that get financial aid yet it isn't enough, let alone few scholarships, whom do u think that it would go to; an international student who came here or a US citizen, which? That's why when they get here, they become so dissapointed and start engaging in wrongful activities such as theft, fraud and other crimes.

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Exactly the same kind of mentality that I was complaining about - the belief that as soon as you step out of Nigeria and into London things immediately start getting better for you. That is why we have so many Nigerians there making a nuisance of themselves and giving the country a bad name.

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How you gonna go when there is no job like they say?

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jobs or no job, if you are opportune to go, do not hesitate(unless the money are rolling here for you ). at least if you do not get it rigth your children who are born there are automatic citizens and have a better chance than maybe back home. they may even come home and get the big jobs here.

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Nigerians have these mentality that you can use scholarship to pay for school from freshman to senior year, lies. I used loan as well to go to school and I've just started to pay it off.

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im glad you have the sense to admit defeat when it stares you in the face. 

Ad hominem eh - wow!! impressive you can actually use words with more than one syllable - Fela was right when he ridiculed "educated"  nigerians in his famous song mr grammaticology- im sure you remember the one where he jibed that nigerians "talk oyingbo pass english man"  i bet when you use such words around your white work colleagues they look at you in amusement,  thinking jesus this guy actually thinks because he's learnt how to use our big words he's one of us.

hmm so YOU are the one who tells people that  they are not up to scratch - could that be the men in white coats who attend to you every half hour  to give you your prozac, ritalin and other anti depressants to keep you going!!!     

mr big grammar what contribution are you willing to make to the progress of your own country or are you waiting until the US govt revoke your green card.

Professor wallie  would you be so kind as to point out any of my previous posts that you take umbrage with and tell me why in your esteemed opinion they do not meet with your exceptionally high academic standards.  by the way did you change your name to wallie because your white "friends" couldnt be bothered to take the time to pronounce your name correctly or was it in order for you to fit in and seem more like "everyone else" - i laugh, i wan die     

Huh!!! for an Einstein wannabee you sure do spout a whole load of gobbledygook - get back to me when they've topped up you're medication.

"slightest resistance" - so institutionalised racism is "slightest resistance".  Now unless you've been living in a cave for the past 20 years you would be forgiven for making such an ignorant statement but i am willing to believe that you have actually lived and worked amongst black, white and other races of people and im also quite confident that you have experienced racism either directly or indirectly, be it in the workplace at college, during social interactions etc.  the united states is one of the most racially divided countries on the face of this planet, therefore racism affects almost every aspect of your life, racism dictates where you live, what sort of job you get, where you study, even whom you date or marry, therefore to dismiss racism as a "slight resistance" is not only silly it is also dangerous.  This slight resistance you refer to is what many african americans sacrificed their lives to try and eradicate, it is because of these people's bravery and courage that people like you can even have access to these so called elite institutions that you effortlessly reel off as places where only the "brilliant" can attend.  Are you aware that less than 40 years ago the closest that people who looked like you could get to these so called elite colleges was as a kitchen porter or janitor. Go and find out how recently blacks were allowed to actually attend these colleges that you hold in such high esteem.

yes i agree that you must fight for something that is worth having, but my point is, how about being honest enough to see something for what it is, lets recognise what we are dealing with instead of making excuses for other people's unmitigated racism.  If african americans had adopted your mindset they would never have fought for change in a society which refused to recognise them as american citizens, if they had your mindset they woould have continuously blamed themselves for the vicious and disgusting way that they were being treated by a white majority, they would have bowed their heads and continued to put up with the daily humiliations and degradation that they were being subjected to.

have you ever seen a situation in america where a foreign lawyer who trained and qualifed outside the US is offered a  job over a  US trained lawyer? 

have you ever seen a situation where a foreign lawyer with no prior US legal experience has been given the opportunity to learn on the job despite the abundance of american qualified lawyers who can do the same  job?

have you ever seen a situation where  a foreign lawyer who does not even have a green card is offered a job despite not attending a US law school or gaining any relevant legal experience working within a US law firm over a US qualified lawyer with five years relevant experience in the US? 

If you can answer yes to any of the above questions then perhaps i will carry on this conversation with you if no then i advise you to know when to throw in the towel and stop making a nuisance of yourself simply because of bad belle.

so what? - what is the percentage of people who benefit from scholarships in comparison to the number of people from working class backgrounds with good high school grades but who cant afford the extortionate fees charged at these elite institutions. 

i had to get a loan from a bank to attend law school which took me years to pay back - many people simply cant afford to make those kind of financial committments - but they have the ability - what happens to them?

there you go again with these your fatuous elitist arguments - didnt george bush junior go to Yale? how brilliant is he?

are you aware that many of these rich people make huge donations to these institutions thereby guaranteeing places for their offspring? - these institutions encourage cronyism and nepotism - there is nothing meritocratic about them.

I have relatives  who attended Yale - not just because they made the entry requirements but mainly because their dad was well connected and knew how to pull strings to get them in.

perhaps it scares you because for the first time in your life your false sense of security is being challenged, you actually think that you are safe, you refuse to think or even look outside the box, you are looking at the world through a "white lens" - the way white people see the world - its okay for them to look at life like that because they are protected by the system - you, on the other hand are not - you are a victim in a system that does not accord you the same opportunities that it accords whites - that is the truth which you dont want to face up to.

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/the-white-lens/

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cap28 is right to some extent. Being black may not get you far in a whites man land. If you follow british politics u will realise that the BNP want to kick us all out of their country. i dont doubt cap28's claim. Some of these white people are living in the 1500's. They dont want qualified blacks to take up jobs that they are well certified to pull of the challenge even if they have the right 2 be here(papers). they dont even want blacks or indians such a party.

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Wow some post here seem to amaze me, hmmm, from Cap28 to Wallie, yall really funny, anyway.

@Pafun, just because you earn more than someone else perhaps your colleagues doesn't necessarily mean that's why they resent you. I don't know about the U.K., but in the U.S. certain OHR law bars employees or perhaps managers from discussing pay information with other employees unless there's a need to and they authorized to do so. What I'm saying is obviously your co-workers shouldn't have known about your pay grade or if u earned more than they did not if u told them but certain instances its unlikely.

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Like I posted earlier, I can't really speak for the UK despite regular visits but there are some things one can notice/see randomly to make you think how we can get so low in a foreign land.

Stereotypical attitudes are everywhere even here in the US but it is the level that catches folks' attention from time to time and place to place. I have friends that moved back after being hired by Nigerian companies and enjoy being there and contributing, we can't all be doing the same thing is my point. No matter what we do, we must never forget where we came from.

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Do recognise that I said that particular job was the last I did in UK. I had before this lived and worked in that country for almost five years and I know all tat is needed to be known about the citizens. It is not a bit like America believe me.

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I knew someone would try to bash me for this. I think that one of the fundamental requirements for gaining respect of other people is to make them respect your individuality. I gained the respect of my co-workers for this. I certainly feel better being called Olawale (not my real name) than being called Wally. Additionally I performed, if I didn't no amount of "assimilation"would have kept me on the job - it would have just been "one nigger less, the better the show". As a matter of fact the "culture of life" in England is two-facedness , and you should face to recognize that to your own peril.

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OP: One of the fundamental requirements of an immigrant is the ability to assimilate because it is wrong to expect your hosts to adapt to you instead of you adapting to their culture or way of life, that explains some of the issues you had with them. You are back in Nigeria now and doing well so no need for any lecture.

timaus: One of the benefits of a civilized (and even some uncivilized) cultures is the choice that's available to all, everyone can't be farmers or business men. With two Masters degrees you should know that some of have entrepreneurial impulses while others have technocratic impulses (Some folks sadly have neither) but I think you get my drift.

If there are Nigerians like that here, I haven't seen and maybe I do need to get out more but this place is not conducive for that, the women won't take it for one.

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i felt i must join this thread, pafum i agree with you 100%. am a graduate with two masters. i lost my job with Oceanic but i have been thinking along your side. people are making lots of money with ideas and a little capital if only they are willing to take the risk. there are no easy way to make money. there is money in the fish and chicken because it is a stable commodity which Nigerians eat a lot. many prefer to work for some else because there is little risk attach to it. but it feels good if you are your own boss.

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Sorry I won't discuss this any further. I don't hate anybody. We are all good and bad in our own unique ways. In retrospect they may not actually have hated me . They actually might not have understood me . I certainly was struggling to understand their culture and assimilate it , but I was still too Afrocentric and actually insisted that they call me nothing other than my full Yoruba name - no abbreviation, no Anglicizing. Hey I was an inconsiderate p.rick.

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Most were quite nice gentlemen though when you deal with them one 2 one. It is when they get together behind your back especially over a pint or two that they become wild beasts. Many till remain my friends however.

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Get it but what was the resentment all about? Did they spite you or what?

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No I only worked in that particular office for 18 months. The resentment was from my oyinbo co-workers . Most of the Nigerian cleaners were simply ashamed to be seen doing this work.

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No offense, I'm confused I'm certainly not getting where your resentment came from. I mean was it from the Nigerian cleaners, or your co-workers whom you worked with for abt 10 years?

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@cap28

My last year working in UK and in the City was in an office where I was the only black person. The Nigerian cleaners who came to do their work after dusk always regarded me with amazement as I had this habit of working late most days - like what the hell is a Nigerian doing here ?. From my colleagues at work , most of whom have been in the firm more than 10 years all I could feel was resentment everyday , and if I wasn't so good at what I did I am sure wouldn't have lasted 2 weeks. I guess this was one of the reasons that made me finally return home - the realisation that these arseholes would never take me as their equal even though every day I proved myself better than them in every way. This is England - very unpredictable, very treacherous.

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You got the words out of my mouth "[b]LAZINESS" that is the term. Did I mention "PRIDE" as well? They are lucky they are married to women who accommodate them, else someone would have started a job at Pizza Hut, lol

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I don't know what to say, I visit UK and "see some things that makes me go hhhhmmmmm"

Some of those guys are really living off their wives and might be lazy to some extent because 2 years of no employment is enough to train for a whole new career.

There is some truth to both sides is my two cents (free) on this.

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one other thing - you are right, going to college isnt just about reading books etc however you demonstrate an astounding lack of original or independent thought for someone who subscribes to this view, all of your responses have been full of banal observations and regurgitated rubbish which has robbed you of the ability to think critically, if you could only stop watching cnn, fox and sky news maybe you might be able to learn something.

by the way you did not force me to do anything, i chose to respond to you in order to burst your little bubble and open your eyes to the real world.

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nairaland don turn to law court,this learned gentlemen sef.

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Understood. You have five years of legal experience but doing what exactly? Was your 5-year experience directly related to what you were hired for? It is possible to have years of experience as a paralegal (legal secretary) but that experience doesn't necessary mean you will have the wherewithal to fly solo.

Interesting. Every job is unique with its own peculiarity and nuances. I sure would hope that you would have some sort of experience that will benefit them.

I’ve never served burger and fries but I’ve worked as a cashier once, thanks for asking!

Quite contrary Cap28; It is possible to get hired on a padded resume and getting fired later on for not meeting the “requirements” of the job. The five years of experience you keep referring to, was that from doing substantive work or doing document review? How many contracts have you actually written on your own?

The only bad belle I have was from eating asaro earlier. Without bragging, it is kind of hard for me to pull people down because it is kinda lonely up here. I have nothing against you Cap28, I don’t even know you; all I’m saying is that blaming others for your inadequacies will not get you far in life.

I take this as a compliment! Unlike the British, Americans don’t use big words to communicate. I guess I must still have some Naija education left in me. I feel you on the legalese stuff though, I sometimes write to confuse the other party when the facts or the law are not on my side☺

There’s nothing wrong in acquiring your education in Nigeria. I went to school with some Nigerians that were already admitted to the Nigerian Bar but came to my school for their LLM and/or JD.

Low self esteem? I guess you can call it that, as long as it means not deluding myself. Why is it hard for you to accept that some people are better than you and that they may be white? If you are as intelligent as you claim, you won’t be crying racism. The whites should be the ones complaining of being legally exploited by an African.

Could the American educational system be better? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it is not one of the best in the world. Below are the list of the top 200 universities in the world and the list of Nobel price winners by country. Do you have any other measuring stick?

http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2009/10/20/worlds-best-universities-top-200

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country

Hmm, Arnold must be a regular Joe Blow to have an accent and control the 7th largest economy in the world. I guess being a movie star had nothing to do with it. There’s not wrong in having an accent that is comprehensible. My reference to “accent” was to point out that it could be a hindrance if you speak English like ara oke and you’re trying to communicate with a client that’s billed $600 per hour.

Obama groomed and selected? Ok. Alan Keyes, are you kidding me? I bet you are one of those that choose their candidates based on race?

Going to college is more than just about reading your books and getting good grades, it is about learning how to think independently based on information available to you.

I sincerely apologize for singling you out in a public forum and forcing you to defend yourself. My apologies!

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I strongly believe that everyone has his or her own reason in choosing anywhere he or she wants to leave.

Come to think of it, the level or ethnicity,tribalism and nepotism in Nigeria is even worst than racism experienced in Europe

An amanbra man or woman can never be made a principal in an enugu state school. This thing is obvious and glaring for all to see

and yet we talk about racism all the time.

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Wallie let me repeat the statement that i made in my earlier post - I HAVE OVER FIVE YEARS PRACTICAL LEGAL EXPERIENCE -

I am not some greehorn fresh out of law school okay - please learn to read and understand sentences before you respond.

the organisation that i currently work for invested nothing in training me , as a matter of fact i came in with useful experience which they benefited from as i was responsible for training  other junior members of the team.

can't you? then you obviously havent heard of the phrase  workplace discrimination.

do you work in an office or are you still serving burgers and fries in mcdonalds?

nice try - trust me if i couldnt do the job, i would never have been given the opportunity to get anywhere near a govt organisation let alone obtain over 5 years experience in areas ranging from commercial property, town planning and commercial contracts.  Wallie i know what your problem is its what nigeria's succinctly refer to as "bad belle" people like you hate to see others doing better than them and like crabs in a barrel love nothing better than to tear others down. 

you state that my writings and posts are carefree - you've completely lost me there as i have no idea what you are wittering on about, perhaps you are wondering why i do not express myself using bogus, unintelligible phrases and employing the use of ungrammatical english in order to impress the likes of you.  i dont know what sort of law school you attended but my tutors always impressed upon on us the need for succinctness and brevity.  i understand that many nigerians love nothing better than expressing themselves using impenetrable legalese which serves no useful purpose other than to confuse and distort the true meaning of what they are trying to get across to their audience.

i think it is unbelievably presumptuous of you to make the above statement, you know nothing about me and for all you know i may have acquired my entire education in nigeria. 

just because you have low self esteem and automatically assume that whites are more intelligent than yourself does not mean that i should adopt the same philosophy.  I speak from first hand experience - many nigerians are just as good if not more capable than their white counterparts irrespective of where they study , the american educational system is known for being second rate havent you heard that 40 million US citizens are functional illiterates who can't read or write above fourth grade level?

http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/18679/michael-moore-on-citizens-united

why does reading this sound as if its coming out of the mouth of some bigoted red neck from Texas and not a full grown nigerian man who should know better.  please see my comments above about the american educational system. 

you are so hung up on this belief that white is always right  that you can't see the wood for the trees.  Did your country (america) not have a grade C president who ignorantly bragged about his mediocrity?

now i know for sure that you feel inferior to whites, whats wrong with having an accent, does arnold schwarzennegger not have an accent - did that derail his political career?

as long as you speak grammatical and intelligible english why should having an accent be a hindrance. Listen pal your arguments are pathetic and they dont stack up - the issue is not about accent - its about race okay, if accents havent hindered the success of eastern europeans, japanese and chinese people why should they hinder blacks. 

there you go again getting all delusional on me.  Obama is not your run of the mill black person - first of all he did not have the kind of upbringing that many blacks in america have, he was raised mainly by whites and therefore inculcated a white perspective and outlook, he also attended elite institutions  from primary level right up to post graduate level.  do you know of many blacks who have this sort of background?  it was no coincidence that he was groomed and selected for the position that he currently occupies.  do you think some ordinary black guy who attended state funded institutions would ever get anywhere near a senate seat let alone the presidency.  Not only was Obama's academic and personal background crucial to his selection but even the way he looked - whites like blacks who are not too black (if you catch my drift) i suggest you google alan keyes another aspiring black candidate who was deemed unsuitable by the powers that be for the simple reason that he came across as too african american in appearance.

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Pafun, your tone and choice of words are not necessary in any way (highlighted in black above). You can make a point without using words that are abusive. You are entitled to your opinions in a free and open forum without being abusive. This is a debate, not a slanging match. If anyone else has abused you, I would suggest you be the bigger man and ignore it.

Your point of view will be lost to who ever is reading your opinions as it comes shrouded in a bed of insults.

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For those who have again continued to sing the tune - let nigeria get better if they want us to come back , it is quite obvious that you possess basic cognitive skills and you deserve whatever has happened to bring you to this sorry pass and the eventual outcome of you misguided adventure . If you are doing well wherever you are for God's sake stay there . Nigeria has enough problems and could do without more negative thinkers especially those who also excel at buffoonery. But if your condition has turned out to be even more pathetic than it was before you left Nigeria and you are joining all other clowns in that sing song , then you definitely are the greatest Arrow in the world and you will do well to find a circus to take you with them on exhibition.

No country owes anyone a living. Nigeria does not owe you or me a living - we must make a living individually by ourselves in the way we find fit. We all have different skills and aptitude and must find our level wherever we are. The only thing that Nigeria owes all of us is an "environment" which we must assist to create because this environment includes every one of us living in the country.

UK also owes none of you a living .Heck even the citizens are not under such idiotic impression .If you are there under the premises that "they assisted the politicians to steal our money and we are here to get it back and spend it' , I hope they send you to prison before they finally kick you out for good like the vermin you are.

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Cap28, I feel your pain. It is sad to know that this is your situation. I cannot deny that from what you have highlighted above you are being passed over and discriminated against. I would say keep on trying, look for a different firm,  dont let it dampen your spirits or look for options back in Nigeria (as you are already doing).

Another thing to mention is that it seems you are a lawyer, and most British people want to be represented by their "own kind" and as such find it easier to hire or request a white lawyer. Hence why your firm is keen on keeping the whites and not pushing you further.

Racism exists everywhere and we have to fight it to carry on. In Nigeria we would encounter tribalism and we too have to fight that as well. There is always some form of hurdle in life, we just have to find a way to fight it to achieve our goals.

Nigeria's problem is corruption and this is endemic in the society. Even if you come with positive changes, people will push and fight against you as you are not corrupt etc. Change has to come from the bottom up and from the top down. Our government arent leading a good example and the task of changing the government and mindset is a major task that means removing almost everyone in power and pushing down policies that are not based on "my pocket" but "good of the society".

A mammoth task which I am personally happy to be part of for my country I love.

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I'd just like to say no one should be in a hurry to go back to Nigeria if they have comfortable lives in the west. You need more than just loads of money to survive if you've been away for a really long time. A lot (note I didn't say all) of those that will say they are happy there is because

they haven't experienced life (not just 4 weeks holidays a year) in countries where things work as they should

they do not have the passports/immigration documents that would allow them work and live comfortably abroad

they have opportunity to travel out often to take breaks from the Naija system

their source of livelihood is in Nigeria so why would they want to leave

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@ pafun,

I'm rather interested in the solutions or assistance you offered your friends otherwise, I'd see you as the typical "friends who talk behind your back".

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This is one of the most interesting threads i have read which has unfortunately digressed from 'are there jobs in UK' to UK or Nigeria, 'which is better'. first things first we as humans tend to generalise where we need to be specific. specific situations shouldnt be used as a yard stick of the norm. another thing to note is that we are all different and not everyone has the 4 Ds to survive. determination, drive, desire and dedication. in essence what i mean is that in any situation you are in whether UK or naija you need those four things with prayer to succeed and indeed rascism tribalism and all the other isms are there, whether we like it or not. while it is good to use people like Obama as examples the truth is that the Obama story is a singular and specific one and not the norm, just like George Bush's intelligence cannot be the yard stick for the average white.

Pafun and cap28 have made very good contributions but it is worthy to note that their contributions are borne from the experiences they have faced and the experiences of people closest to them. these experiences will make them stronger and instead of bashing anyone's opinions we should strive to learn from them. if you havent experienced racism does that mean racism doesnt exist? you could be lucky or even worse, not seen as a threat for promotion so no one bothers with being funny towards you. i conclude by saying that one should put God first, embrace the opportunities that present themselves and be good at all times.UK is not for everyone. i repeat UK is not for everyone. if you cant hack it and have a realistic opportunity in the land of your birth by all means go. if staying here is your forte and you are PROGRESSING and not stagnant then stay, but by all means admit it to yourself that here isnt paradise. some people here made a few demeaning remarks about Pafun's business, which is poultry. this is wrong. we need more poultry, meat, fish owners and build up the agricultural base we abandoned when we struck oil. a nation that cannot feed itself is a nation in disarray and perpetual stagnancy. i will always have time for people in agriculture.

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@ cap28:

I came on here to let Pafun know that his over-generalisation is both twisted and superfluous. I don’t bluff, but strikes the nail right on its head. If you have problem with the way I framed my response that ostensibly displays your lack of detailed comprehension. To synthesize the main points again: (1) PAFUN was, in my opinion, wrong to deploy two gentlemen’s joblessness in inferring that hundreds of Nigerian men are in the same situation. So, I countered his assumption citing a few examples of human endeavours in which you’ll find hard working Nigerians; (2) returning to Naija isn’t the only solution as he was inclined to want to make us believe. Why not? Nigeria is grossly unsafe: armed robberies and extra-judicial killings, to mention just two examples, abound. Besides, the wages in a number of sectors isn’t what it should be. So, I cited my own example of unwillingness to relocate assuming I lost my job. And, I need not resort to “bowing and scraping to [my] white employers so that [am] not singled out for redundancy” as I had no reason to do so in the last 10 years.

On racism, discrimination and pupils’ disrespectfulness: Yes, I know there are guys who experience these irrespective of how good they may be. But, is there no tribalism, discrimination, prejudice and in fact, in schools and campuses infested with cultism, do teachers and lecturers still have the respect they used to have years ago? Still on disrespectfulness in the UK contexts, you don’t need to be a social researcher to know that what children do in this society is an antithesis of what their counterparts do in Nigeria. Years ago I called my professors John, Mark, Bob. In Nigeria, even the guy who in my first year in the university was in his final year, but came back after his NYSC to take up Assistant Lecturer job insisted we stopped calling him by his first name, which we were calling him only some 12-15 months earlier. The point ‘am making is this: what school kids do to their teachers (which some African teachers frown at) is no worse than what they do to their parents/guardians. Saying these, I know my onions, excellent at what I do, have a track record in my field, and as a sequel to these, I haven’t, in the last 10 years, witnessed discrimination and prejudice. Again, you’re threading the same footpath as Pafun by claiming, ‘I can guarantee you that that unilag lecturer is treated with more respect by his pupils and colleagues than you could ever dream of being treated.’ What a statement utterly borne out of ignorance and unempirical generalisation.

On unemployment rate: Thanks goodness you know the unemployment rate in the UK. For me, dealing with the known is far better than dealing with the unknown. Given that Pafun advocates that jobless Nigerian men should return home (not considering family ties in the UK, e.g. children in schools, colleges and universities, etc, etc) can you tell us what the statistics is for unemployment in Nigeria. This enables any would be returnee to know what to face up to when they arrived the shores of Nigeria. Since you linked unemployment rate amongst black people with discrimination (which I’ll not dispute), it seem plausible to ask whether or not Nigerians, irrespective of their qualifications don’t face and daily live with discrimination, even in their fatherland.

On property market: I said, “A friend of my living in Manchester lost his job in the banking industry at the peak of the financial meltdown, and hasn’t been “working” in the last 14 months. Of course, he had put to excellent use, his years of service with the bank by building a portfolio of buy-to-let properties.” Did you read or just gloss over my response. “He had put to excellent use, his years of service with the bank by building a portfolio of buy-to-let properties” meant that he bought these houses long before the crash. Investigate the national average for UK home between 2003 and 2006 and verify whether or not anyone who bought buy-to-let property during this period is likely to be running at a loss as I write. Even if you sensibly buy a property in 2007, you should be fine.

On the rationale for teaching being helping young people acheive (sic) their potential. Yes, that’s the rhetoric used in Nigeria for decades and decades until the publicly funded educational system collapsed. Helping young people achieve their (let me add, FULL) potentials. Yes! That’s precisely what I do. But my reward is not in heaven, just before you say that. And, on being a teacher and not a neurosurgeon. Yes, we teachers ostentatiously “make” not only the neurosurgeons, but also the astronauts, engineers, and other professionals, and they’re always, more than grateful to us for making them what and who they’re.

On pontificating from ivory tower: I wasn’t and wouldn’t, really. Albeit, whilst I didn’t, in my response, claim any “extraordinary genius and talent”, except you’re attributing that to me, which I very much welcome (that’s precisely how my students, colleagues and headmaster describes me), the idea of coming “up with ways as to how we can save our country” isn’t the matter at the heart of this particular thread. Millions of Nigerians hold divergent opinions on the subject. Many have expressed their opinions on other threads on this website, and so have I. However, this takes me to my final comment. The issues and questions you raised derail this discourse. How does where I specifically teach (which is none of your business, because if you were so keen on its verification, you should have implicitly declared yours, if you like stating the address, phone and fax numbers) detract from the fact that the vast majority of Nigerians are gainfully employed in professions ranging from teaching to Neurosurgeons?

And, by the way, why won’t you heed Pafun’s clarion call by resigning your job so you don’t have to be “bowing and scraping  to your white employers so that you are not singled out for redundancy (as black staff are usually the last in and first out) as the cleaning jobs are now being snapped up by young white graduates who can’t find work,” get a ticket, and return to Naija where you can “you use your extraordinary genius and talent to come up with ways as to how we can save our country.” May be when you have saved Nigeria, the rest of us can return to Nigeria.

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@ cap28

there is definetly a lot of snobbery in the elite/russell group universities in the uk

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I don’t mean to call you out Cap28 but have you ever considered that there might be other factors involved in not keeping you on? Do you know that a new employee doing substantive work usually takes about 5 months or longer to get trained? Why would a profit seeking company squander 5 months of pay?

I find it difficult to understand how a business can justify terminating an employee that provides quality work in favor of another employee with unknown work ethic.

Could it be that your performance is not up to par? What kind of law do you practice? I ask because your writings/posts seems carefree and that’s just putting it politely. Could your posts provide a glimpse into your work product?

Like you, I went to college, grad school and law school here but I won’t delude myself saying some whites are not better than me. If you think you’re the best, what was your class rank in law school? Is it not conceivable that people who out-rank you in class will have a higher probability of getting the same job, if everything else was equal?

With regards to the racism issue, it is true that it still exists; however, black people are quick to point to racism even when they can’t compete based on merit. People claim to have college degrees, but how well did they do while in college? Is the degree of comparable standard with that of foreign institutions? Can they write a grammatically correct coherent substantive memo?

Blacks came along way and having an accent definitely compounds the problem. But an African that can compete with their white counterpart on every measurable merit will always find a befitting job even if some doors get slammed in his face due to racism.   

President Obama is a perfect example of racism not being able to hold a willing qualified Black person down.

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okay let me break it down for you so that maybe you might understand better - i am not applying for the job - i am already in it, however i am the only black lawyer in the entire department.

i dont understand your analogy of a nigerian and a malian, first of all australians, new zealanders and white south africans are not british citizens, they may have british ancestry but they are not british citizens hence the requirement that they apply for work permits - therefore to state that anyone from the above countries is entitled to be given preferential treatment over a british passport holder is ridiculous.

okay you say that i should offer something more - like what? in case you missed what i wrote above the new zealander had LESS EXPERIENCE than me but was allowed to learn on the job, how is it then that a person with MORE experience should still have to offer more?

Your comments about the indians and the chinese is complete garbage, in the UK there are blacks who do go to the so called ivy league colleges but many still do not do as well as their white counterparts in the job market.

elite institutions were set up to create a class based environment with children of the rich having access to better job opportunities than people from working class backgrounds.  many people who attend these universities are not more intelligent than people who attended so called new universities - i agree that attendance at an elite institution increases your chances of getting a better job however there is a down side to them, they encourage elitism and snobbery and many blacks who attend them lose touch with their identity and eventually become ashamed of their roots and identity.  i know quite a few nigerians who have attended these institutions and they are the most twisted messed up individuals you could ever meet. many are ashamed to be black and do not associate with their own people.  why would anyone in thier right mind send their child to a place where that child would eventually grow to look down on their own parents.

the problem with people like you is that you are gullible and brainwashed, i am explaining to you what its like to be in a hostile environment surrounded by whites who do not think you deserve to be where you are - this is out and out racism but people like you who remain eternally grateful for every crumb thrown to you by whites refuse to see and accept something which is staring you in the face.  

you say that you have been promoted over many white colleagues - can i ask what type of job you do, if it is a highly skilled job where blacks are few in number i would be inclined to doubt you.  however if you are indeed being honest then i salute you for being able to navigate the minefield that is british office poltics.   in all the years that  i have worked amongst british people i am yet to see a situation where a foreigner no matter how capable is promoted above their white colleagues.

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@ cap28

I think your negative experiences have led you to over-generalise again. Not all black people are treate as 'last in, first out'.

You might feel enslaved, you might feel highly deprived and what not, but don't for one second think Nigeria is automatically better simply because you are black.

If you worry about being a 'slave' in the UK, ask Nigerians who are denied promotions because they are not from the right tribe as far as the promoting authority/person is concerned, or people denied their dues because they are not corrupt, or the millions who have suffered greatly from the tyranny of the privileged few. Think about the millions living poor lives and doing their best yet living in abject penury and you might understand why some will 'accept' some prejudices while still making a decent living.

I agree with you that the ultimate solution is to retake our country and make things better for us as a people and less focus on individual successes. BUT - not everyone will be willing to pay the price and will 'settle' for having a comfortable life (if not the best life possible) and give their kids and themselves an opportunity to live a better life.

Even if an individual decides to go 'make a difference' that doesn't guarantee things will change in Nigeria or will get better. Each person has to decide what is best for himself and what part he can play in the life of his nation.

The UK is no tea party, neither is Nigeria - to those making boastful comments about their current situations, be careful lest you fall.

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@cap28

if a "nigerian" and a "malian" applied for the same job in "Nigeria" I can bet my head off that the "nigerian" would have the highest chances of getting the job except if the "Malian" had something more to offer.

Unfortunately the UK is not your country so you need to offer something more.

Why do you think the Indians and the Chinese are propering more than the Blacks in the UK, well my friend their parents realised ages ago that just sending their children to free schools that africans cherish so much in the UK would only keep them confined in their hole and you know what they did they saved every penny and sent these kids to proper private schools, sent them to oxbridge and pronto works like magic they beat the status quo.

I have been promoted over a lot of white colleagues and its not because i feel i deserve it but i have something extra to offer, same poo goes on wherever you may be in this world try and offer something more.

the problem with us blacks is that we love blaming others for our problems but ourselves.

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well lucky you, i on the other hand experience it quite frequently, i have a degree in law plus over 5 years work experience in various areas of law and i compete for jobs in a fast shrinking job market with many whites who have less experience but who are offered the best jobs over and above blacks who are better qualified.  white south africans, new zealanders and australians (despite not having long term work permits) are all offered the best jobs over black british people (and im not talking black people with resident permits but blacks who were born in this country like myself) if a british citizen who was born in this country is being discriminated against simply because of the colour of their skin then you know that there is no hope for blacks in this country.

the high paying jobs are never initially offered to blacks, these jobs are usually reserved for whites, its only where the employer cannot recruit a white person that blacks are considered (usually for less pay) the drop in pay is normally the only reason that whites will offer the job to a black person.

im currently working as a freelance legal contractor, my contract is due for renewal in 2 months time but my employers have chosen instead to readvertise the position so that they can offer the job to a white person, one of my co workers is a new zealander who has been in her position for over 2 years (despite having no experience when she started the job) but has decided to go home to be with her family, my employer's have told her that she is welcome to come back to her job if she changes her mind and decides to come back to the UK - do  you see the difference? If you were in my shoes how would you feel.

things in this country are actually going to get worse, i feel sorry for all these people on here bragging about how they are making £500 an hour - because i know that for any white employer to pay you that kind of money there must be some sort of catch - even in my current job i know the level of jealousy, backstabbing and hostility i face from whites who are not happy to see me working alongside them in a profession that they feel should be reserved for whites only. 

jobs are disappearing fast in this country and in order to pacify their people the govt will start taking away jobs from blacks and giving them to their own people in order to avert a race war - this is the future.

this is why i know that the only way out is for us to try and rebuild our own countries, at the moment blacks are tolerated because the situation is not drastic, however very soon it will become a them (blacks) vs white (us) type situation. 

i think it will be suicidal to just sit here and wait for things to get worse, im currently in the process of making plans to relocate to africa, although im researching which country  will be best for me and my family based on my skills.   

i am all for returning to nigeria as i would like to make some useful contribution to my country, i wish there were more nigerians who thought in this way because as a collective we can make a difference.  the UK is a white man's country - they use black labour when it suits them, when they no longer have any need for you they cast you aside like trash.

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cap28, I agree that racism and prejudice still exists in the UK, but since I started working, I havent experienced it personally. I am not bullied or passed over. I prove myself when I start with the company/my team and I have the full respect of my colleagues. It is unfortunate that you know people who are still bullied or discriminated against.

There are quite a number of Nigerians in my current company and they are well respected because they are the best at what they do. I want to highlight that if you have experienced racism and prejudice in your journey through life, I wont say it doesn't exist, but in my journey's I haven't experienced it. I am always given the chance to prove myself (as all companies expect you to when they hire you).

The only time a Nigerian was seen in a bad light was in my former company (another global company with offices in Nigeria), this guy was making long calls to Nigeria (I mean hours on the phone in the evening. He was even coming into the office to make calls in the weekend). This was an abuse of the system and he was found out. If that person gets a different treatment after that can we say it is racism? bear in mind that same person can come on this forum and say his company are racist because he "simply" used the phone in the office.

Please note that I am not saying your experiences are your fault or that there is no racism in the UK. I am not naive to think there is no racism or prejudice. But despite this, I am aware of lots of people doing well and succeeding despite the "two faced" and prejudiced nature of the British system which still exists.

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For a humble school teacher you seem to be staggeringly arrogant - pray tell which "top notch" UK college is this and what do you teach there?

how do your pupils relate to you - are you accorded the same respect as your white peers?

I ask this because i work within a local govt organisation  and i have experienced many ethnic minority senior staff who are very good at their jobs and come across as down to earth but  regularly have to put up with bullying from white colleagues, not only that they are constantly in an ongoing  battle trying to prove that they are as competent as their white peers, you however seem to have glossed over all of that and seem more interested in reeling off a list of people in high positions which quite frankly means nothing to the average black person who is trying to earn a living in a country where jobs are fast dissapearing on a daily basis.

if what you say is true and you do infact teach in a top notch UK college i would like to know how you have survived as you do not sound like a down to earth person and if theres one thing i know its that whites cant stand arrogant black people- especially arrogant nigerians.  

i dont think it is at all silly for pafun to have made that statement - do you know what the current unemployment rate for blacks in this country is ?  are you aware that black men in the UK experience disproportionate levels of unemployment (irrespective of their qualifications) in comparison to any other ethnic group in this country.

if black men are disproportionately over represented in the unemployment market would it not make sense to conclude that many nigerian men are likely to be affected as well?

Well nigerians are known for being very false because they are so hung up on trying to live beyond their means in order to project an image of success and wealth.  Furthermore many nigerians use churches as an outlet for pent up anxiety and frustration therefore the fact that you have "never come across a dull nigerian congregation" is neither here nor there.  nigerians are very good at masking their true feelings for fear of being seen as weak - its all a facade my friend.

hang on - i thought the buy to let property market went downhill the minute the recession kicked in  in late 2008, i dont know anyone who invested in the buy to let business that has reaped anything from it since the onset of this recession.

yes but instead of sitting here in your ivory tower pontificating, why dont you use your extraordinary genius and talent to come up with ways as to how we can save our country.

well you better carry on bowing and scraping  to your white employers so that you are not singled out for redundancy (as black staff are usually the last in and first out) as the cleaning jobs are now being snapped up by young white graduates who cant find work.

You are extremely shallow - i can guarantee you that that unilag lecturer is treated with more respect by his pupils and colleagues than you could ever dream of being treated.  by the way since when did teaching become a profession to go into in order to make money and drive expensive cars, i thought teaching was more of a humanitarian type profession where the aim was more in line with helping young people acheive their potential - god give me strength.

No pal, i think you're the one who needs to wise up - you are a teacher not a neuro surgeon - please learn some humility.

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I fink it all depends on d type of person yu are.

U wil surely get jobs in uk if u r nt lazy n u cant

compare such job with ours here.

SHALOM

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hindu blind men and elephant: Mintzberg SAfari strategy: 10 schools of strategy making. hehehehehe

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